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Platformers need to evolve!

Archive: 25 posts
2012-11-04 17:46:00 / Author: yugnar
This was posted by Mnniska in LBPC:

To me, it seems like platformers have been going into some sort of stagnation over the last couple of months. Maybe I am hallucinating, but nowadays I associate the term "LBP2 platformer" with a generic workout for sackboy, made to show off a bunch of scenery with some filler gameplay so that you can still call it a platformer.

Don't get me wrong, there are still A LOT of good platformers out there, but it seems to me like most of the really popular ones follow this boring reciept on what a platformer is and should be. (Not all of them though, just the majority.)
I am not very fond of this trend, it seems to me like creators are focusing on trying to replicate famous platformers and following this reciept for "success" rather then following their own creativity and making something unique and new.

Instead of complaining about this in general I am going to state exactly what I am bothered with and what I would like to see. See this as a kind of platforming wishlist, or perhaps ways to evolve a platformer that is acceptable by todays standards. If you remember back to LBP1 people would create stuff that is rendered horrible by todays standards, this is what I would like the next generation of platformers to do!

> Unique platforming!
This might be a bit hard to pull off, I admit. That dosen't stop me from putting it on my wish-list though! It seems t me that most platfomers have this generic fast gameplay. Bouncepads, spinning things, flashing lights. Throw it out and let in some new gameplay, I say! Dare to try new things and tricks, explore new corners of the editor. Seeing something unique is soo rare nowadays. It feels like I have already played all of the platformers, at this point they are just changing texture packs.

> Puzzles are awesome!
I honestly can't remember the last time I had to stop and think in a platformer. What's wrong with thinking? I like to think. Does anyone here like to think? I'd like to actually stop for once and consider what I need to do! I haven't done that in ages in a platformer.
Some might argue that they don't want to include too much thinking because there's children playing levels and that they would never get the puzzles. I for one really don't get why you would be making levels exclusively for children.

> Dare to challenge the player!
Trying to get through a segment for several minutes and finally succeeding is something incredibly rewarding and fun. Yet 90% of the platformers are SOOOO simple. You can practically run through them with your eyes closed! I'd like to see harder levels.

> More storytelling!
I'm not saying that every platformer needs a story; most of them can survive perfectly fine without one. But when you do include a story I'd love to see something more then a static character stating that someone stole his x and that you need to get it back from y. (Ironically that is the plot for level I'm working on xD ). I'd also like something more then some speechbubbles giving you the plot; I want proper animations, camera angles, whatevers! As long as it isn't a random cardboard dude/sackbot just..sitting there and giving you the plot, I'd be happy.

> Proper secrets!
If there's going to be secrets, do it properly. Nowadays one can throw in eight things of whatever that gives you points and then have some lights show how many of them you found.What happens if you find them all? You get more points, yay you. I'd like to see better rewards for finding these secrets, but I would also like to see better hiding places.
I'm tired of finding secrets by walking to the left of things :b Lemme try and memorize codes, use skillfull platforming, solve clever puzzles, whatever! I'd like levels to stop throwing in secrets just to have them there.



That is my current wishlist. Any level that manages to do at least one of these are usually worth playing IMO, if they pull off more then one they are pretty great.
What the community CAN do at this point is scenery. Oh boy, are the creators skilled in that field!

But what have caused this stagnation? I am going to go ahead and guess that it's the Mm picks. I'm not saying that Steven is doing a bad job, not at all. I love the fact that all kinds of levels can be picked now (remember when only non-platformers got picked every third month?) and it's great having five new levels to play every friday. However, with so many peeps playing through the Mm picks it has become the sign of being a successfull LBP creator. It seems to me like most creator's goal is to get that huggable dude to pick your level. And how do you get him to pick your level? Why, you analyze the levels at the top and try to make something similair, of course!

And so, a great trend of similair platformers have started. Boring!

Do you agree, or disagree? What would you like the current platformers to stop doing, and start doing? Are you happy with the current platformers or are you growing bored of them?
Discuss!

TL;DR: Platformers nowadays are exactly the same but with different scenery. They could be better!

----------------

My relpy was:

Agree in every single word. The problem is that when you try to make a hard platformer, even if it has got quality, there are only two possible results:

-It is extremely succesful and you get acclaimed by it (like Roller Inc. 2 or your double jump level -that was insane!-).
-It is a total failure because people just dislike that kind of stuff, and won't consider even Yaying those kind of levels.

One of the creator I admire for his awesome levels (speaking in terms of how smart and well-designed his latest puzzles and platforming levels) is bonner123. His Grievant Palace of I-don't-know-wut was the smartest level I've played in the whole year. It was a joy to overcome each puzzle! Still, I think it received much less yays it deserved for the same reason people don't wanna play hard stuff. Such a shame.

----------- What do you think on the subject?
2012-11-04 17:46:00
Author:
yugnar
Posts: 766

2012-11-05 05:32:00 / Author: PyroTrooper91
I totally agree with your opinion yugnar
2012-11-05 05:32:00
Author:
PyroTrooper91
Posts: 1670

2012-11-05 17:19:00 / Author: TRaciti
A petitioner you sure are, yugnar! And may I say: you make a great point! Wonderful argument stated. Surely one to be documented! http://www.littlebigforum.eu/forum/download/images/a_73_978127f6.png
2012-11-05 17:19:00
Author:
TRaciti
Posts: 986

2012-11-05 17:48:00 / Author: yugnar
Wait people! Thanks for your compliments, but remember that everything but the last three paragraphs were written by Mnniska! I totally agree with his opinion, but the credit goes to him.
2012-11-05 17:48:00
Author:
yugnar
Posts: 766

2012-11-05 18:21:00 / Author: TRaciti
Of course, all must get credit. It is still a wonderful point, and that was what was being stated.
2012-11-05 18:21:00
Author:
TRaciti
Posts: 986

2012-11-17 12:39:00 / Author: bluesteel
The harder the better... I mean, not just throw in millions of plasma balls that kill me every time I jump half an inch to high, but puzzles and stuff. I'd love to see some more of that. And new gameplay mechanics, not just swing along some grabby wheels. Or fall down a layer, then tap R1 to change onto another layer. Yawn. Lets have some new ideas!
2012-11-17 12:39:00
Author:
bluesteel
Posts: 14

2012-11-17 13:11:00 / Author: yugnar
I'd really like to see a level that leaves me like this...

http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg495/yugnar/c39bc76a489c5b165be4844e3da6f43f_zps99935582.jpg

Lol
2012-11-17 13:11:00
Author:
yugnar
Posts: 766

2013-06-17 17:16:00 / Author: XZombieKing1999X
This is completely true, I should know. I play successful levels for ideas, and now im going to try everything this has asked of me. I actually noticed for my The Abandoned Castle level two of my secrets were a little complicated, two lightbulbs, you turn them on then grab them, which no one thinks to do. Yes I just told you guys secrets to my level, go to get them if you dare. Lol, Im glad I saw this.
2013-06-17 17:16:00
Author:
XZombieKing1999X
Posts: 416

2013-07-11 07:34:00 / Author: TheOfficialKing
I feel the same way ,I do feel bad that the generic levels are what catches more.Ever since LBP2 storytelling started fading away it's understandable that you don't have a genius story but it's fun when you try I enjoy mediocre stories the best tbh because they're way funnier.

As for visuals anybody could pull that off so meh.In gameplay OMG there is so many ways to get inventive with your gameplay....power ups, unlimited sackbot abilities,physics etc.

And YES to puzzles, I'm feeling the LBP community is quite dumb and brain teasers wouldn't be the worst idea.

Adding challenge to your players is a MUST challenge is fun and there is alot of challenging clever gameplay to go around and gives lenght/sastifaction to make a player glad he completed your level.

Hidden items are seen often but they are really mediocrely hidden, I have a couple friends who crave for top score and I know it's good for me to set them a challenge when trying to get top score on my levels: proof I've never held a top score on any of my own levels.

In addition to that, I think people should include more custcenes for a more immersive experience just like in storymode we didn't have these tools on LBP1 and now that we do we're not even using it.
2013-07-11 07:34:00
Author:
TheOfficialKing
Posts: 24

2013-07-11 08:49:00 / Author: yugnar
I was thinking as well really seriously of making a quality series like a level pack DLC... But experience has shown me that just about 1/2 of the players who start a level series made by the community will finish it, and those numbers are quite discouraging, specially if you leave the best for the end., including the actual end of your story.
2013-07-11 08:49:00
Author:
yugnar
Posts: 766

2013-10-04 18:03:00 / Author: xan-con
You know, the things that you mentioned sound similar to the strengths of my Xander VERSUS The World series on LBP2, now that I think about it.

?Clever Platforming with a Wide Variety of obstacles and power-ups
?Interesting Storyline with Funny Dialogue
?Cutscenes that don't get in your way during gameplay
?Creative Areas, Secret Rooms, and Minor Puzzles
?Cool Soundtrack
?Unique Weirdness

Needless to say, it's a little rough around the edges but pretty underrated. It has a very unique feel to it in my opinion. I've played a ton of website-advertised community levels that also suffer from the exact same problem of being underrated and I'm trying to help some of them by playing them.
2013-10-04 18:03:00
Author:
xan-con
Posts: 104

2013-10-04 19:49:00 / Author: JellyBellyScout
nothing like making a level, and getting insulted because its "to hard" or that puzzle with simple logic was "to advanced"... that person then goes and plays a bomb survival.
2013-10-04 19:49:00
Author:
JellyBellyScout
Posts: 467

2013-10-04 20:49:00 / Author: xan-con
I agree with you, JellyBellyScout. It almost looked as if you were replying to me.
2013-10-04 20:49:00
Author:
xan-con
Posts: 104

2013-10-06 09:16:00 / Author: xan-con
Also, for anyone who was disappointed with my levels, I've finally ironed out all of the main issues, so be sure to try it again

EDIT: One of the only crippling issues I have with my Xander VERSUS The World series is that it is on the short side and pretty rushed. Part 2 is way too short ( unless you're trying to ace it, which is a huge part of the reason why Part 2 is so short. Short and sweet ). Also, Part 2.5 is almost UNBELIEVABLY short, but there's barely any gameplay purpose to Part 2.5 to begin with; it's just an optional mini-level that serves as an "entrance" to the somewhat lengthy Part 3. Gameplay is rarely the best thing about the series (although it does have some very interesting moments). It feels pretty unique, though.
2013-10-06 09:16:00
Author:
xan-con
Posts: 104

2013-12-18 15:32:00 / Author: Aye_Jaye13
True, I agree most of the new levels are just recycled versions of older ones. I focus more on design because that's what I'm good at Also I'm not a 'story' person so don't expect that from me.
2013-12-18 15:32:00
Author:
Aye_Jaye13
Posts: 76

2013-12-22 07:16:00 / Author: slufoot48
Well, after reading all this. Let me share with you, I and friends created a prequel storyline to Dajdaj03's level Arabesque. With permission of course from Daj, It encompassed 7 levels, Some folks thought it well enough to put into there picks hubs (thank you ) I got noticed by Steven and he even tried it, never did he get any further than the first 3min..then bailed. , it had over 3k plays, and it involved a story well crafted secrets challenges. Anyway, thers no way after a year of politely asking him to play again, I was told he never would and that I would never have a chance at a team pick. No problem, but when you invest 180 plus hrs in a level, and hear this, its quite discouraging. Soooo . I DELETED it, I still create , but I'm not going to do the things like that again. P.s At the time my level was played by him, he picked " the magic eight ball" team picked a copyrighted thingy. Not an original. Thanks for reading.... Slu
2013-12-22 07:16:00
Author:
slufoot48
Posts: 22

2013-12-22 20:36:00 / Author: dakrrs
Well said Namemyownprice!
2013-12-22 20:36:00
Author:
dakrrs
Posts: 561

2013-12-23 12:36:00 / Author: slufoot48
Inspired by this thread,... I' creating a one of a kind level. Called Gekks stay tuned
2013-12-23 12:36:00
Author:
slufoot48
Posts: 22

2013-12-23 16:58:00 / Author: JellyBellyScout
I think you can only take lbp2 tools so far, in lbp3 or hub I would like to see an attempt at easy to use 3-d building so you can make 1st person types of levels. Or at least more layers
2013-12-23 16:58:00
Author:
JellyBellyScout
Posts: 467

2013-12-24 08:16:00 / Author: Z1091990
not the plattformer, just the creator of the levels itself need to evolve but it seems the most are to afraid to take a step out of the comfortzone
2013-12-24 08:16:00
Author:
Z1091990
Posts: 24

2013-12-24 09:26:00 / Author: TheAngler2010
no we need more minigames and less platformers- comes from a platformer creator- what a hyprocrite
2013-12-24 09:26:00
Author:
TheAngler2010
Posts: 185

2013-12-25 06:36:00 / Author: GooeyGhost
No angler, we just need people to make good platformers and good mini games. Well, we need to make everything good (if that makes sense), even if your doing a Change Room or a Costume you should give it your best effort.

If you have and idea that seems complex, do it! Instead of going for the more easy product. Good levels take months of work. Precise movement, good flow, etc... Things like that makes a good platformers, and they're not easy to do. Most of this week team picks for example, look like they where made in a week. Poorly polished and most had that typical platforming structure and gameplay. Everything looked the same.

And talking about innovation, I feel nothing in LBP2 is original. Well... Not anymore. Everything is a combination of two-three old things mashed up together to make a new things. (And new doesn't mean original) If we wanted to find something purely original we would have to go to the first months of LBP2 or even further to LBP1's roots. Every piece of gameplay is a variation of something already made, with the creator's touch sprinkled over it. Creating is like cooking! Some creators have a talent and are able to assemble wonderful dishes, and other creators just put a frozen pizza in the microwave.
2013-12-25 06:36:00
Author:
GooeyGhost
Posts: 401

2013-12-25 13:20:00 / Author: Z1091990
@ Rainbow T-rex the last lines are a great comparison ^^
2013-12-25 13:20:00
Author:
Z1091990
Posts: 24

2013-12-25 20:41:00 / Author: TheAngler2010
i think you said your giving me cookies?
2013-12-25 20:41:00
Author:
TheAngler2010
Posts: 185

2013-12-27 23:12:00 / Author: dakrrs
@Aye_Jaye13

I don't do stories either. I just play with different materials until I get a scene that I either like, is pleasing to the eye of others and myself, or something no one has ever seen before.

Mainly I enjoy DETAILS and GRAPHICS.

The only issue is my nemesis...the Negativathermometer.
2013-12-27 23:12:00
Author:
dakrrs
Posts: 561
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