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Play Popit 2

Archive: 18 posts
2013-12-05 23:50:00 / Author: Bonnell7
http://if.lbp.me/img/bl/0cff8cf50ca16a48de5e8dc124f4cffbb2e9c789.png
The Play Popit 2 is an attempt to replicate Create Mode.

The original attempt was hugely popular do to the fact that it had never been done before. It was called the Popit Sackbot by Hazbell.
This pioneer of a level was later given a more compete sequel called the Popit Sackbot 2.
Other remakes of his level, made by various creators, follow his example; same style, and functionality.

My level attempts to mirror the basic Create Mode functionality you're used to, with more.
I've put in my own theme, and my own tools that would make actual Create Mode easier.

In it's current state, not much serious creating can be done, but much can still be tinkered with.
If you wish for a complete version of the Play Popit, you'll have to settle for 2D. Follow this LBP.me link: Play Popit 1.

This level has so many cables, logic pieces, and holograms in it! Yet the thermometer is up less then a third; I've got a lot of room to make this level awesome!

Give me your feedback as reviews, comments, or replies to this topic. I'd appreciate suggestions anytime!

http://ia.lbp.me/img/ft/79ab59d1fdcaeed2530a216b1b69c42711c4edeb.jpg

http://i7.lbp.me/img/ft/8a7be95426aba9a63176720399a5aa214a856283.jpg

http://i9.lbp.me/img/ft/609e6a3f9a0241a46842716d5fd70ffbec0c33f6.jpg
2013-12-05 23:50:00
Author:
Bonnell7
Posts: 14

2013-12-06 05:14:00 / Author: PyroTrooper91
Wow, what a great idea! Definitely queued
2013-12-06 05:14:00
Author:
PyroTrooper91
Posts: 1670

2013-12-06 07:21:00 / Author: Deleted User
Wow, what a great idea that hundreds have came up with already before, one level of it was even Mm Picked.
Not queuing because of the complete unoriginality. :/
2013-12-06 07:21:00
Author:
Deleted User
Posts: 819

2013-12-06 07:29:00 / Author: DeKa1357
"I've put in my own theme, and my own tools that would make actual Create Mode easier."

That sounds great!!!
2013-12-06 07:29:00
Author:
DeKa1357
Posts: 1806

2013-12-06 08:17:00 / Author: Bonnell7

Um, yeah. You didn't need to point out the fact that it's been done before. I said that like 4 times in the post itself.
And the guy who got that Mm pick; I wanted his blessings for my level because I respected his so much. He reviewed mine with good praise and we have nothing but respect for each others work.

And how can you still be upset about originality? Do you have any idea what game this is?
Yeah, I get your point; and I wish I could abide by it. But there are millions of levels published right now; your favorite "original" level could be a downright copy.

Aside from the remarks, I am glad someone is aware of the Popit Sackbot genre.
2013-12-06 08:17:00
Author:
Bonnell7
Posts: 14

2013-12-06 10:09:00 / Author: FreddyFerrari
The pictures of the popit are looking great! I like the 3d effect inside of it
2013-12-06 10:09:00
Author:
FreddyFerrari
Posts: 853

2013-12-06 18:12:00 / Author: TheAngler2010
I applaud you for trying to recreate it and use a ton of logic. I hope you can make some gameplay and a platformer outa this maybe make a sackbot but not use all the things just some abilities that could make a good platformer.
2013-12-06 18:12:00
Author:
TheAngler2010
Posts: 185

2013-12-07 07:50:00 / Author: Deleted User
I just replied to Pyro's post saying that it's a great idea. I'm not upset about anything, I made a level like this too. The only thing I pointed out is that Pyro posted like he would complement you for the idea which is not yours."Wow, what a great idea!" was absolutely irrelevant in this case. And that I'm not going to play this, because I'm already fed up with those kind levels. There was no word about your level being bad, or deserving no appreciation, I just said I'm not queuing it. I'm sure it's great, you put effort(I can't say how much, there's not much besides simple logic behind the concept) into it and that you had fun creating it(which is very important), but that doesn't mean other people will enjoy playing it.
And there's nothing bad about unoriginality, there's just no point for me to play a level, that I've played many times before. Different appearance doesn't make any difference to me, and maybe you added some of your own tools, but making something easier doesn't make it any funnier, or more customisable.

And if I would want to point something out I would say this:
That is wrong. I've seen many of them, and even started making mine before Hazbell's was published. It was popular because it was made by an already popular creator.
2013-12-07 07:50:00
Author:
Deleted User
Posts: 819

2013-12-07 12:37:00 / Author: Bonnell7
@smigolpol:
Hmm? thank you for that information. In my conversations with Hazbell, he mentioned his fame came from his level. That kinda throws a wrench into that idea.
Well, I appreciate the clarification.

Is that so? :

http://i1.lbp.me/img/ft/9e1a942c1acf05de12769adab7b33d679b1da6cf.jpg

http://i2.lbp.me/img/ft/5a2d8e8945e7a9602857bfcff0cf032c41f4d726.jpg

http://i0.lbp.me/img/ft/a804722a5e4781de27b0ec0ab724381001234913.jpg
2013-12-07 12:37:00
Author:
Bonnell7
Posts: 14

2013-12-07 12:59:00 / Author: TheAngler2010
Geesh dude that's simple every 6 year old could do that
this is just my simple helicopter:
http://i6.lbp.me/img/ft/616170a3baea49a594f5de8c449b7b54bb3d278f.jpg
http://i1.lbp.me/img/ft/b115a569e13ed45dcee0f9fceb12e7d14c1d15d9.jpg
2013-12-07 12:59:00
Author:
TheAngler2010
Posts: 185

2013-12-07 14:06:00 / Author: Bonnell7
It's the interaction and cohesiveness of all the components that really brings out good logic; not the looks.

I've ran into people all around that claim to be incredible logic creators.
They show me their massively huge microchips, I fit it all into just 5 gates, and say, "here ya go."

I can tell yours has multiple custom material/object tweakers that:
1: sense the presence of each other via tags
2: recognize if one component goes missing, and thereby activate destroyers that I assume are set to explode.
You've also used the familiar method of 3 gyroscopes to change the angle of the helicopter to accommodate for the moving direction.
Besides a few other measures to shoot missiles/bullets and ensure lack of bugs, you're right; it's a basic helicopter.

Knowing that, how is your logic a comparison to my logic?

My second question is why all I've done is post a level I've worked dearly on for months, and been criticized for unoriginality and apparently faulty ideas of logic difficulty?
I thought this community was a bit more easy going than this, yet I've been here 2 days, and am nearly convinced to leave.
2013-12-07 14:06:00
Author:
Bonnell7
Posts: 14

2013-12-07 14:34:00 / Author: FreddyFerrari
Well I think that I can see say that I am good in logic ( good does not mean very good) and I think that you are right bonnel. Behind this sackbot is a littlebit more than 'simple' logic. I think a big problem is to keep the overview. And I think @theAngler's post was just for fun. I think he knew that you logic is a little bit more complicated as his microchips are almost empty. And about @smigopol... Well that is his opinion and his personality. You can notice this in several other posts too but that's ok as long as he is respectful and doesn't swear etc. Ok, I had to delete the first sentence of the second part of his post that's how it is but you can be sure that smigopol is a 'special' member and NOT like the others and in my opinion is that ok. Have a look at the other threads and you will see that we have a lot of othervery friendly and polite members here. So you should not say that you don't like the community after you met only 2 members
2013-12-07 14:34:00
Author:
FreddyFerrari
Posts: 853

2013-12-07 14:37:00 / Author: Bonnell7
Okay, thank you for the encouragement.
2013-12-07 14:37:00
Author:
Bonnell7
Posts: 14

2013-12-07 16:48:00 / Author: TheAngler2010
yeah dude I'm a goofy kiddo... I'm decent at logic but I like designing art better but you have great art. sorry if I offended you.
"Sea Monster Fail"
http://id.lbp.me/img/ft/78dfa035fe23a28230bdbe47c70552726b4c2a87.jpg
2013-12-07 16:48:00
Author:
TheAngler2010
Posts: 185

2013-12-08 09:19:00 / Author: Deleted User
Is that so?

Well, I definitely need to learn how to communicate with people, because I seem to be worse than terrible at that.
I did not mean that what you did was not complicated, or not requiring effort. No matter what you would show me, no matter how complicated your circuit would be, I would always say it is "simple".
Why? Well, I know that if I put enough effort and time into remaking it, I would get a very similar result. Logic is powerful programming language, which means that you can do anything with it, there's no limits(expect for the level memory limit). What I said is that it's not hard to use it.
And In my opinion people are wrong when they say: "good/better at logic", "bad/worse at logic", "I can't make logic". Because it only requires logical thinking(of course) and understanding of LBP symbols, which are things that can't be measured, if you understand logic you can make anything with it, there's nothing that one person can do, but another can't.
And in my subjective(not supported by sufficient arguments) opinion, someone saying that they can't understand logic is wrong. Understanding it requires nothing more than at leased minor intelligence, which everybody has, and it's not something you get born with. If somebody is "an idiot" compared to the community all around, it's his/her fault. There are very many aspects of the intelligence, but the most important parts can be learned or practised, especially logical thinking.
And if "simple" for you is the opposite of "complicated". Do you think making something complicated is any harder than making something simple? The only difference is that complicated projects require more time to be done, as a complicated logic circuit is made out of many, smaller, simple circuits.
Did making the logic for your level really cause you that much trouble? Because I don't think so.
2013-12-08 09:19:00
Author:
Deleted User
Posts: 819

2013-12-08 21:25:00 / Author: Bonnell7
I get what you're saying, but find some points misguided. The individual simple components put together doesn't mean the logic as a whole is simple. Some logic can get so complicated and massive, that even the creator is unaware of the possible outcomes. Therefore an extensive trial-and-error routine must be done.
The logic I showed in my pictures were not put together with complete confidence and/or direction. I knew I had to achieve something, but there comes a point when there's so much stuff in your system, you forget what does what. You just hope that what you forgot works with what you remember. Hence the trial-and-error.

In my opinion, it's insulting for a spectator to judge the components and the outcome of logic, rather than why and how the individual components work together to give that outcome. It's those interactions that make the logic.

This point is what I tried to get across to angler when I pointed out the components of the helicopter. Each microchip in the system serves it's own purpose, with some slight interaction to trigger an explosion. The interactions here are very simple, but serve their purposes well. (You'll notice the repetitive nature of the microchips on my top logic photo. Yeah, that one isn't a good example for what I'm about to say, but the other two are.)

In the case of something where there are components designed to manipulate the interactions of other components, you reach complexity.

When you have so many dedicated components to other components and no one component can serve a single purpose, you have reached a system where judgement of those single components is meaningless, as nothing works singularly, but rather as a whole.

If you truly wish to judge my microchips, take a step back and view their entire network.
2013-12-08 21:25:00
Author:
Bonnell7
Posts: 14

2013-12-09 09:45:00 / Author: Deleted User
Before I start mindlessly counterargument your subjective arguments with my own, I will say this:
How can we discuss about something that subjective and personal as an opinion about making logic being a simple task or not?
Everybody makes logic differently, everybody understands it differently, therefore it is a very simple task to create a complex system for me, but not a simple task for you(so you appreciate it more than me, it doesn't mean I do it better). And we're both right and wrong about what we are saying because we both say what makes logic simple/complex for us, but we aren't at all speaking objectively and thinking what the other person could think. This discussion would never have any result.

I should explain that earlier, but I was getting distracted with the impression of you completely misunderstanding me, take a look at what you're saying:
People usually take wrong inferences from other peoples message, because of their emotions. That's why I always(well, most of the time) wait a few hours and read a post that is counterarguments me multiple times before replying.
Who was criticising you for unoriginality? I only said I am not going to play the level, which shouldn't offend you at all, I've already had as much fun with that kind of levels as I could. I'm sorry if you thought that I think your level is bad, I didn't mean that. As I said before I told you my personal subjective opinion about logic difficulty, now looking at it, it really looks like as I would say that my opinion is the right one. I'm sorry for that, I couldn't fully think clearly while I was saying that. But you should never think logic is hard. It is not. People who say that something is "too hard" make it come true, as they will never achieve it thinking that way. The other way around when you know you can do something, then you do, if you just think of how to achieve it.
Why? Why do you have to pick on an unimportant mistake of mine, completely ignoring the sense of the whole message?
The point was that making logic is a very easy task to me, because I find it all very simple. I have years of experience with LBP logic, programming, logical thinking, I spent so much time trying to understand how exactly a computer works(you don't really understand how something works until you can recreate it, so I made a computing system in LBP) that now it is very hard to me to imagine how it is not to think logically and mathematically. So I have practised logic enough to always achieve the wanted functionality without even thinking about something being "complex/too complex" or "hard to do". That doesn't mean I don't meet any problems while doing it, but there is always a solution to them, so I always find it.
And what I meant with the dividing to simple components is that if you group the components into subsystems, the whole complex system would look like a simple component. As well as if you would look at the code of individual LBP logic mechanics, a simple component would look like a complex system. But that is not such a good example after all.


Did I look like I'm a beginner with logic that never created anything complex with it and thinks that everything in it simple because of that from your point of view?
I'm sorry, I didn't think of that, but now I see you might have been saying something like that. You're new here, so it is specially difficult for me to think your way and know how to explain things to you the best way.
Recently I opened one of my old logic projects and I have to admit, you are right that logic kinda gets out of control in very complex projects with hundreds or thousands of wires going in all directions, where you're unable to see what each wire does and why it does it. But I don't usually have that problem any more. When I started programming in group projects with more experienced programmers(I still am a giant "noob", but writing code isn't that hard to me anymore), I learned that it is very, very important to keep your code clearly readable. One of the most important rules of good programming is: keep it as simple as possible, and if you want to make some tricky optimizations, remember, first get it to work, THEN get it to work fast. So if you can think of many different ways to achieve some functionality, choose the most straightforward and clear way rather than the most optimal way(then if you want to optimalise the finished product leave some kind of a note about that). I also name all my chips, inputs, outputs and leave notes everywhere, so that even if I come back to the project after many years, not even remembering it, I would still know what this specific AND gate does.
You also have to remember to divide your LBP logic code to enough microchips, so that you never have too many wires visible, because the FPS can drop to below 1(That happened to me too many times). Following those rules LBP logic is always simple to me.
That is all I meant, I said that I don't appreciate logic as much as everybody else, because I find that not much is required to make it. Perhaps I'm wrong about that. I've always had problems with understanding how much other people are different than me, because I can't imagine thinking differently.
2013-12-09 09:45:00
Author:
Deleted User
Posts: 819

2013-12-09 10:59:00 / Author: Bonnell7
Thank you for clarifying. I guess I'm just sensitive about this level because I've sacrificed a lot to get it to the point it's at now.
And the reason I made this form of level is because I'm only good with logic and user interfaces.

A fake create mode doesn't require fancy decorations or fun gameplay; but rather, requires immense amounts of logic, which is why I found the project so appealing.

And I had no idea you had such experience with logic. Many people I meet never touch the stuff, so it's easy to mistaken everybody that way after a while.
2013-12-09 10:59:00
Author:
Bonnell7
Posts: 14
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